理性看待大埔案(個人感想)不喜勿入 - 苗栗
By Candice
at 2013-08-25T00:22
at 2013-08-25T00:22
Table of Contents
以下都是個人感想,也許你不認同,但請尊重。理性看待此事!
還有以下都是前幾晚,睡覺時夢到的....
1.大埔案,我想發生在任何一個縣市,我想當地一定會有很多人會忿忿不平!
大家一定覺得苗栗王做的很誇張,但想想發生在其他縣市的話,你覺得哪個主政者
會"合情合理合法"去徵收土地,且合情合理合法去開發當地。讓大多數人都獲得
應得利益及尊嚴呢? 我想很難!
2.縣長 立委 議員 在地的鄉鎮長 地方人士,幾乎都是掛勾一起的。我想大家都不否認吧
那邊準備要開發,我想他們都是拿第一手資料,甚至是制訂者。你要怎麼跟他們鬥呢!
土地開發的利益是超乎想像的大。 頭份中央路、竹南延平路、環市路、光復路(以前
的台玻)頭份大潤發(以前的華隆那塊地)以前都是農地或是工業用地,一坪可能只有
1萬甚至不到,但一旦變成住商(商業)用地,一次可翻10幾倍以上,甚至更高!
想想桃園青埔地區。準備要開發(變更地目)前,他們早就找人頭甚至找親朋友好友
去收購附近的土地了!且他們底下絕對有認識的開發建設公司,也絕對有營建公司
....等等!
我剛說的那些地段,在地的知情的人都知道,大多都是在地的地方人士、前議員立委
的親戚朋友買下附近的土地的!然後開始轉賣還有收租,躺著賺!
現在竹南科學園區(大埔),台積電、嬌聯附近的地,都已經開始買賣了!
都還沒蓋,空曠如也。附近的土地在大埔案前早就已經如火如荼的開始買賣了!
你覺得第一手買的人是誰呢.............用膝蓋想都知道吧!
但...你覺得只有苗栗縣是降嗎.....
這些人都知道如何鑽法律漏洞,鑽到不合情不合理但"合法"。
就算不合法,被抓到也是底下的親信去坐牢。就算本人被抓到,你覺得會被判多重呢
刑期的一半就可以假釋了,不然就繼續選舉,選到了就不用被關了!
你知道嗎 大潤發(華隆)那塊地的所有的店家,前五年的店面租金都是免費的。
轉租的不算喔!為什麼?想炒那塊地嘛,如果百貨公司蓋起來,那邊的商圈店家
多了!如果算盤打的好,那邊商圈真的起來了,土地漲了,店面租金也漲了!
就可以轉手賺"很大一筆"。收租金就很可以過好幾輩子了。
在 徵收土地 都無法合情合理合法的狀況下(因為很多人都是被迫的)
在上述的前提下, 我們換個角度想.....
如果因為有一成的人無法接受徵收土地。所以就無法建設,因為在上述前提下
我是頭份人,在地30多年。 頭份到竹南只能走頭份工業區那邊(六合國小旁的小路)
就是民族路。自強路(2段)底到工業區的那條大馬路以前是沒有的!
以前也沒有中央路 沒有三灣交流道 沒有竹南科學園區 沒有環市路 延平路後段
以前那些都是農地或是工業用地。 大潤發也是近幾年才進駐的。
那苗栗 頭份竹南區 是怎樣呢....
又要兼具都會開發,又要保障徵收土地時的合情合理合法....
好難抉擇阿!
頭份竹南近10幾年來,真的發展的不錯,但真的犧牲了不少人。
你覺得 這樣的結果 值得嗎?
沒發展時,都被人酸苗栗都沒星巴客,沒有百貨公司 晚上很無聊,沒有知名的餐廳
當然發展起來後,土地漲、房價漲... 然後再繼續酸 繼續抱怨....
10年 20年後再來看你覺得這一切的一切值得嗎?
我想各有見解吧!
我的夢境中....真的很掙扎,掙扎當中,我醒了,卻還不知道答案!
--
還有以下都是前幾晚,睡覺時夢到的....
1.大埔案,我想發生在任何一個縣市,我想當地一定會有很多人會忿忿不平!
大家一定覺得苗栗王做的很誇張,但想想發生在其他縣市的話,你覺得哪個主政者
會"合情合理合法"去徵收土地,且合情合理合法去開發當地。讓大多數人都獲得
應得利益及尊嚴呢? 我想很難!
2.縣長 立委 議員 在地的鄉鎮長 地方人士,幾乎都是掛勾一起的。我想大家都不否認吧
那邊準備要開發,我想他們都是拿第一手資料,甚至是制訂者。你要怎麼跟他們鬥呢!
土地開發的利益是超乎想像的大。 頭份中央路、竹南延平路、環市路、光復路(以前
的台玻)頭份大潤發(以前的華隆那塊地)以前都是農地或是工業用地,一坪可能只有
1萬甚至不到,但一旦變成住商(商業)用地,一次可翻10幾倍以上,甚至更高!
想想桃園青埔地區。準備要開發(變更地目)前,他們早就找人頭甚至找親朋友好友
去收購附近的土地了!且他們底下絕對有認識的開發建設公司,也絕對有營建公司
....等等!
我剛說的那些地段,在地的知情的人都知道,大多都是在地的地方人士、前議員立委
的親戚朋友買下附近的土地的!然後開始轉賣還有收租,躺著賺!
現在竹南科學園區(大埔),台積電、嬌聯附近的地,都已經開始買賣了!
都還沒蓋,空曠如也。附近的土地在大埔案前早就已經如火如荼的開始買賣了!
你覺得第一手買的人是誰呢.............用膝蓋想都知道吧!
但...你覺得只有苗栗縣是降嗎.....
這些人都知道如何鑽法律漏洞,鑽到不合情不合理但"合法"。
就算不合法,被抓到也是底下的親信去坐牢。就算本人被抓到,你覺得會被判多重呢
刑期的一半就可以假釋了,不然就繼續選舉,選到了就不用被關了!
你知道嗎 大潤發(華隆)那塊地的所有的店家,前五年的店面租金都是免費的。
轉租的不算喔!為什麼?想炒那塊地嘛,如果百貨公司蓋起來,那邊的商圈店家
多了!如果算盤打的好,那邊商圈真的起來了,土地漲了,店面租金也漲了!
就可以轉手賺"很大一筆"。收租金就很可以過好幾輩子了。
在 徵收土地 都無法合情合理合法的狀況下(因為很多人都是被迫的)
在上述的前提下, 我們換個角度想.....
如果因為有一成的人無法接受徵收土地。所以就無法建設,因為在上述前提下
我是頭份人,在地30多年。 頭份到竹南只能走頭份工業區那邊(六合國小旁的小路)
就是民族路。自強路(2段)底到工業區的那條大馬路以前是沒有的!
以前也沒有中央路 沒有三灣交流道 沒有竹南科學園區 沒有環市路 延平路後段
以前那些都是農地或是工業用地。 大潤發也是近幾年才進駐的。
那苗栗 頭份竹南區 是怎樣呢....
又要兼具都會開發,又要保障徵收土地時的合情合理合法....
好難抉擇阿!
頭份竹南近10幾年來,真的發展的不錯,但真的犧牲了不少人。
你覺得 這樣的結果 值得嗎?
沒發展時,都被人酸苗栗都沒星巴客,沒有百貨公司 晚上很無聊,沒有知名的餐廳
當然發展起來後,土地漲、房價漲... 然後再繼續酸 繼續抱怨....
10年 20年後再來看你覺得這一切的一切值得嗎?
我想各有見解吧!
我的夢境中....真的很掙扎,掙扎當中,我醒了,卻還不知道答案!
--
All Comments
By Margaret
at 2013-08-26T21:01
at 2013-08-26T21:01
By Dorothy
at 2013-08-28T17:41
at 2013-08-28T17:41
By Jack
at 2013-08-30T14:20
at 2013-08-30T14:20
By Suhail Hany
at 2013-09-01T11:00
at 2013-09-01T11:00
By Andrew
at 2013-09-03T07:39
at 2013-09-03T07:39
By Mary
at 2013-09-05T04:18
at 2013-09-05T04:18
By Catherine
at 2013-09-07T00:58
at 2013-09-07T00:58
By Genevieve
at 2013-09-08T21:37
at 2013-09-08T21:37
By Ula
at 2013-09-10T18:17
at 2013-09-10T18:17
By Kumar
at 2013-09-12T14:56
at 2013-09-12T14:56
By Daniel
at 2013-09-14T11:35
at 2013-09-14T11:35
By Cara
at 2013-09-16T08:15
at 2013-09-16T08:15
By Regina
at 2013-09-18T04:54
at 2013-09-18T04:54
By Donna
at 2013-09-20T01:34
at 2013-09-20T01:34
By Adele
at 2013-09-21T22:13
at 2013-09-21T22:13
By Aaliyah
at 2013-09-23T18:52
at 2013-09-23T18:52
By Eden
at 2013-09-25T15:32
at 2013-09-25T15:32
By Christine
at 2013-09-27T12:11
at 2013-09-27T12:11
By Kyle
at 2013-09-29T08:51
at 2013-09-29T08:51
By Damian
at 2013-10-01T05:30
at 2013-10-01T05:30
By Eden
at 2013-10-03T02:09
at 2013-10-03T02:09
By Jacky
at 2013-10-04T22:49
at 2013-10-04T22:49
By Jacky
at 2013-10-06T19:28
at 2013-10-06T19:28
By Elvira
at 2013-10-08T16:08
at 2013-10-08T16:08
By Jacky
at 2013-10-10T12:47
at 2013-10-10T12:47
By Eartha
at 2013-10-12T09:26
at 2013-10-12T09:26
By Christine
at 2013-10-14T06:06
at 2013-10-14T06:06
By Ula
at 2013-10-16T02:45
at 2013-10-16T02:45
By Steve
at 2013-10-17T23:25
at 2013-10-17T23:25
By Annie
at 2013-10-19T20:04
at 2013-10-19T20:04
By Blanche
at 2013-10-21T16:43
at 2013-10-21T16:43
By Adele
at 2013-10-23T13:23
at 2013-10-23T13:23
By Kelly
at 2013-10-25T10:02
at 2013-10-25T10:02
By Liam
at 2013-10-27T06:42
at 2013-10-27T06:42
By Franklin
at 2013-10-29T03:21
at 2013-10-29T03:21
By Liam
at 2013-10-31T00:00
at 2013-10-31T00:00
By Jessica
at 2013-11-01T20:40
at 2013-11-01T20:40
By Joe
at 2013-11-03T17:19
at 2013-11-03T17:19
By Kyle
at 2013-11-05T13:59
at 2013-11-05T13:59
By Lydia
at 2013-11-07T10:38
at 2013-11-07T10:38
By Sandy
at 2013-11-09T07:17
at 2013-11-09T07:17
By Suhail Hany
at 2013-11-11T03:57
at 2013-11-11T03:57
By Puput
at 2013-11-13T00:36
at 2013-11-13T00:36
By Thomas
at 2013-11-14T21:16
at 2013-11-14T21:16
By Belly
at 2013-11-16T17:55
at 2013-11-16T17:55
By Bennie
at 2013-11-18T14:34
at 2013-11-18T14:34
By Andy
at 2013-11-20T11:14
at 2013-11-20T11:14
By Mary
at 2013-11-22T07:53
at 2013-11-22T07:53
By Emma
at 2013-11-24T04:33
at 2013-11-24T04:33
By Ida
at 2013-11-26T01:12
at 2013-11-26T01:12
By Olivia
at 2013-11-27T21:51
at 2013-11-27T21:51
By Genevieve
at 2013-11-29T18:31
at 2013-11-29T18:31
By Oliver
at 2013-12-01T15:10
at 2013-12-01T15:10
By Tracy
at 2013-12-03T11:50
at 2013-12-03T11:50
By James
at 2013-12-05T08:29
at 2013-12-05T08:29
By Oscar
at 2013-12-07T05:08
at 2013-12-07T05:08
By Hardy
at 2013-12-09T01:48
at 2013-12-09T01:48
By David
at 2013-12-10T22:27
at 2013-12-10T22:27
By Todd Johnson
at 2013-12-12T19:07
at 2013-12-12T19:07
By Adele
at 2013-12-14T15:46
at 2013-12-14T15:46
By Heather
at 2013-12-16T12:25
at 2013-12-16T12:25
By Todd Johnson
at 2013-12-18T09:05
at 2013-12-18T09:05
By Elizabeth
at 2013-12-20T05:44
at 2013-12-20T05:44
By Madame
at 2013-12-22T02:24
at 2013-12-22T02:24
By Emma
at 2013-12-23T23:03
at 2013-12-23T23:03
By Agatha
at 2013-12-25T19:42
at 2013-12-25T19:42
By Valerie
at 2013-12-27T16:22
at 2013-12-27T16:22
By Wallis
at 2013-12-29T13:01
at 2013-12-29T13:01
By Anonymous
at 2013-12-31T09:41
at 2013-12-31T09:41
By Carol
at 2014-01-02T06:20
at 2014-01-02T06:20
By Donna
at 2014-01-04T02:59
at 2014-01-04T02:59
By Vanessa
at 2014-01-05T23:39
at 2014-01-05T23:39
By Lydia
at 2014-01-07T20:18
at 2014-01-07T20:18
By Adele
at 2014-01-09T16:58
at 2014-01-09T16:58
By Elma
at 2014-01-11T13:37
at 2014-01-11T13:37
By Poppy
at 2014-01-13T10:16
at 2014-01-13T10:16
By Carolina Franco
at 2014-01-15T06:56
at 2014-01-15T06:56
By Andy
at 2014-01-17T03:35
at 2014-01-17T03:35
By Blanche
at 2014-01-19T00:15
at 2014-01-19T00:15
By Linda
at 2014-01-20T20:54
at 2014-01-20T20:54
By Faithe
at 2014-01-22T17:33
at 2014-01-22T17:33
By Lily
at 2014-01-24T14:13
at 2014-01-24T14:13
By Mason
at 2014-01-26T10:52
at 2014-01-26T10:52
By Kelly
at 2014-01-28T07:32
at 2014-01-28T07:32
By Oscar
at 2014-01-30T04:11
at 2014-01-30T04:11
By John
at 2014-02-01T00:50
at 2014-02-01T00:50
By Ivy
at 2014-02-02T21:30
at 2014-02-02T21:30
By Franklin
at 2014-02-04T18:09
at 2014-02-04T18:09
By Odelette
at 2014-02-06T14:49
at 2014-02-06T14:49
By Jacky
at 2014-02-08T11:28
at 2014-02-08T11:28
By Agnes
at 2014-02-10T08:07
at 2014-02-10T08:07
By Tom
at 2014-02-12T04:47
at 2014-02-12T04:47
By Adele
at 2014-02-14T01:26
at 2014-02-14T01:26
By Elizabeth
at 2014-02-15T22:06
at 2014-02-15T22:06
By Jacky
at 2014-02-17T18:45
at 2014-02-17T18:45
By Agnes
at 2014-02-19T15:24
at 2014-02-19T15:24
By Ingrid
at 2014-02-21T12:04
at 2014-02-21T12:04
By Emily
at 2014-02-23T08:43
at 2014-02-23T08:43
By Elizabeth
at 2014-02-25T05:23
at 2014-02-25T05:23
By Christine
at 2014-02-27T02:02
at 2014-02-27T02:02
By Connor
at 2014-02-28T22:41
at 2014-02-28T22:41
By Delia
at 2014-03-02T19:21
at 2014-03-02T19:21
By Selena
at 2014-03-04T16:00
at 2014-03-04T16:00
By Emily
at 2014-03-06T12:40
at 2014-03-06T12:40
By Poppy
at 2014-03-08T09:19
at 2014-03-08T09:19
By Thomas
at 2014-03-10T05:58
at 2014-03-10T05:58
By Selena
at 2014-03-12T02:38
at 2014-03-12T02:38
By Kristin
at 2014-03-13T23:17
at 2014-03-13T23:17
By Isla
at 2014-03-15T19:57
at 2014-03-15T19:57
By Damian
at 2014-03-17T16:36
at 2014-03-17T16:36
By Hazel
at 2014-03-19T13:15
at 2014-03-19T13:15
By Candice
at 2014-03-21T09:55
at 2014-03-21T09:55
By Bethany
at 2014-03-23T06:34
at 2014-03-23T06:34
By Yedda
at 2014-03-25T03:14
at 2014-03-25T03:14
By Bennie
at 2014-03-26T23:53
at 2014-03-26T23:53
By Poppy
at 2014-03-28T20:32
at 2014-03-28T20:32
By Carolina Franco
at 2014-03-30T17:12
at 2014-03-30T17:12
By Cara
at 2014-04-01T13:51
at 2014-04-01T13:51
By Dorothy
at 2014-04-03T10:31
at 2014-04-03T10:31
By Joseph
at 2014-04-05T07:10
at 2014-04-05T07:10
By Yuri
at 2014-04-07T03:49
at 2014-04-07T03:49
By Isabella
at 2014-04-09T00:29
at 2014-04-09T00:29
By Lucy
at 2014-04-10T21:08
at 2014-04-10T21:08
By Oliver
at 2014-04-12T17:48
at 2014-04-12T17:48
By Adele
at 2014-04-14T14:27
at 2014-04-14T14:27
By Heather
at 2014-04-16T11:06
at 2014-04-16T11:06
By Yedda
at 2014-04-18T07:46
at 2014-04-18T07:46
By Lauren
at 2014-04-20T04:25
at 2014-04-20T04:25
By Oscar
at 2014-04-22T01:05
at 2014-04-22T01:05
By Wallis
at 2014-04-23T21:44
at 2014-04-23T21:44
By Agatha
at 2014-04-25T18:23
at 2014-04-25T18:23
By Tristan Cohan
at 2014-04-27T15:03
at 2014-04-27T15:03
By Ursula
at 2014-04-29T11:42
at 2014-04-29T11:42
By Oscar
at 2014-05-01T08:22
at 2014-05-01T08:22
By Elma
at 2014-05-03T05:01
at 2014-05-03T05:01
By Quanna
at 2014-05-05T01:40
at 2014-05-05T01:40
By Ivy
at 2014-05-06T22:20
at 2014-05-06T22:20
By Belly
at 2014-05-08T18:59
at 2014-05-08T18:59
By William
at 2014-05-10T15:39
at 2014-05-10T15:39
By Skylar Davis
at 2014-05-12T12:18
at 2014-05-12T12:18
By Rachel
at 2014-05-14T08:57
at 2014-05-14T08:57
By Thomas
at 2014-05-16T05:37
at 2014-05-16T05:37
By Lauren
at 2014-05-18T02:16
at 2014-05-18T02:16
By Elma
at 2014-05-19T22:56
at 2014-05-19T22:56
By Necoo
at 2014-05-21T19:35
at 2014-05-21T19:35
By Queena
at 2014-05-23T16:14
at 2014-05-23T16:14
By Franklin
at 2014-05-25T12:54
at 2014-05-25T12:54
By Todd Johnson
at 2014-05-27T09:33
at 2014-05-27T09:33
By Charlotte
at 2014-05-29T06:13
at 2014-05-29T06:13
By Hedwig
at 2014-05-31T02:52
at 2014-05-31T02:52
By Hedy
at 2014-06-01T23:31
at 2014-06-01T23:31
By Charlotte
at 2014-06-03T20:11
at 2014-06-03T20:11
By Blanche
at 2014-06-05T16:50
at 2014-06-05T16:50
By Valerie
at 2014-06-07T13:30
at 2014-06-07T13:30
By Todd Johnson
at 2014-06-09T10:09
at 2014-06-09T10:09
By Emily
at 2014-06-11T06:48
at 2014-06-11T06:48
By Ingrid
at 2014-06-13T03:28
at 2014-06-13T03:28
By John
at 2014-06-15T00:07
at 2014-06-15T00:07
By Frederica
at 2014-06-16T20:47
at 2014-06-16T20:47
By Bethany
at 2014-06-18T17:26
at 2014-06-18T17:26
By Carolina Franco
at 2014-06-20T14:05
at 2014-06-20T14:05
By Regina
at 2014-06-22T10:45
at 2014-06-22T10:45
By Hedy
at 2014-06-24T07:24
at 2014-06-24T07:24
By Una
at 2014-06-26T04:04
at 2014-06-26T04:04
By Frederica
at 2014-06-28T00:43
at 2014-06-28T00:43
By Lauren
at 2014-06-29T21:22
at 2014-06-29T21:22
By James
at 2014-07-01T18:02
at 2014-07-01T18:02
By Kelly
at 2014-07-03T14:41
at 2014-07-03T14:41
By Ethan
at 2014-07-05T11:21
at 2014-07-05T11:21
By Ida
at 2014-07-07T08:00
at 2014-07-07T08:00
By Mary
at 2014-07-09T04:39
at 2014-07-09T04:39
By Elvira
at 2014-07-11T01:19
at 2014-07-11T01:19
By Sarah
at 2014-07-12T21:58
at 2014-07-12T21:58
By Linda
at 2014-07-14T18:38
at 2014-07-14T18:38
By Yedda
at 2014-07-16T15:17
at 2014-07-16T15:17
By Xanthe
at 2014-07-18T11:56
at 2014-07-18T11:56
By Xanthe
at 2014-07-20T08:36
at 2014-07-20T08:36
By Anonymous
at 2014-07-22T05:15
at 2014-07-22T05:15
By Olive
at 2014-07-24T01:55
at 2014-07-24T01:55
By Frederica
at 2014-07-25T22:34
at 2014-07-25T22:34
By Wallis
at 2014-07-27T19:13
at 2014-07-27T19:13
By Oliver
at 2014-07-29T15:53
at 2014-07-29T15:53
By Anonymous
at 2014-07-31T12:32
at 2014-07-31T12:32
By John
at 2014-08-02T09:12
at 2014-08-02T09:12
By George
at 2014-08-04T05:51
at 2014-08-04T05:51
By Gilbert
at 2014-08-06T02:30
at 2014-08-06T02:30
By Joe
at 2014-08-07T23:10
at 2014-08-07T23:10
By Harry
at 2014-08-09T19:49
at 2014-08-09T19:49
By Jacky
at 2014-08-11T16:29
at 2014-08-11T16:29
By Yuri
at 2014-08-13T13:08
at 2014-08-13T13:08
By Erin
at 2014-08-15T09:47
at 2014-08-15T09:47
By Margaret
at 2014-08-17T06:27
at 2014-08-17T06:27
By Candice
at 2014-08-19T03:06
at 2014-08-19T03:06
By Hedy
at 2014-08-20T23:46
at 2014-08-20T23:46
By Edward Lewis
at 2014-08-22T20:25
at 2014-08-22T20:25
By Carolina Franco
at 2014-08-24T17:04
at 2014-08-24T17:04
By Jacob
at 2014-08-26T13:44
at 2014-08-26T13:44
By Ursula
at 2014-08-28T10:23
at 2014-08-28T10:23
By Zenobia
at 2014-08-30T07:03
at 2014-08-30T07:03
By Carolina Franco
at 2014-09-01T03:42
at 2014-09-01T03:42
By Una
at 2014-09-03T00:21
at 2014-09-03T00:21
By Madame
at 2014-09-04T21:01
at 2014-09-04T21:01
By Irma
at 2014-09-06T17:40
at 2014-09-06T17:40
By Oliver
at 2014-09-08T14:20
at 2014-09-08T14:20
By Wallis
at 2014-09-10T10:59
at 2014-09-10T10:59
By Liam
at 2014-09-12T07:38
at 2014-09-12T07:38
By Audriana
at 2014-09-14T04:18
at 2014-09-14T04:18
By Kelly
at 2014-09-16T00:57
at 2014-09-16T00:57
By Jacky
at 2014-09-17T21:37
at 2014-09-17T21:37
By Thomas
at 2014-09-19T18:16
at 2014-09-19T18:16
By Mason
at 2014-09-21T14:55
at 2014-09-21T14:55
By Robert
at 2014-09-23T11:35
at 2014-09-23T11:35
By Catherine
at 2014-09-25T08:14
at 2014-09-25T08:14
By Todd Johnson
at 2014-09-27T04:54
at 2014-09-27T04:54
By Lily
at 2014-09-29T01:33
at 2014-09-29T01:33
By Adele
at 2014-09-30T22:12
at 2014-09-30T22:12
Related Posts
黑羊加州火烤餐廳
By Selena
at 2013-08-25T00:14
at 2013-08-25T00:14
桃園- 應該改名的--相演炭火燒肉
By William
at 2013-08-24T23:53
at 2013-08-24T23:53
台東必吃老東台米苔目林家臭豆腐寶桑湯圓
By Regina
at 2013-08-24T22:46
at 2013-08-24T22:46
新北淡水 Dundas St. Kicthen 登打士街
By Connor
at 2013-08-24T22:01
at 2013-08-24T22:01
花蓮三天兩夜遊行程規劃
By William
at 2013-08-24T21:15
at 2013-08-24T21:15