彰化建捷運引熱議 魏明谷:有需求 - 彰化
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By Jacky
at 2017-04-18T20:49
at 2017-04-18T20:49
Table of Contents
我之前在八卦版發過兩篇文了
不過還沒在彰化版發過
我想這裡的版友比較熟悉彰化
但很可惜對這次延伸案還是諸多不了解 流於政治言論其實不太好
首先這計畫其實早在中捷開始蓋的時候就規劃好了 而不是現在才在吵
延伸的138E 中央補助69E 台中負擔40E 彰化負擔29E
29E對一個交通建設來說不算貴 特別是台中彰化的連結
例如:去年通車的溪尾大橋就花了10E
那台中為何希望延伸? 主要是因為這次延伸的四站有兩站在高鐵特區
特區那兩個里五年內人口成長了31% 超過2500人
一個里一年平均成長250人是很可觀的 更何況那邊待開發的土地還很多
對台中市府來說非常有誘因配合捷運發展
這次的工程經費主要還是貴在特區那一段
http://i.imgur.com/9ZAogIm.jpg (104年的估算表)
上面可以看到真正用在延伸到彰化的部分(土地+非制式高架段+剩下各分一半好了)
20E+11E+16E=47E
也就是彰化只佔四分之一左右的經費而已
這裡我提一下非制式高架段 主要是跨大肚溪的金馬大橋
那座橋會蓋成捷運公路兩用橋 如果以溪尾大橋造價計算(蓋在那地方只會比溪尾更貴)
這次的47E還涵蓋了多蓋一條公路新橋可能的10E成本
對中央來說 這不算是很貴的投資 而且看來可開發空間很大
對台中來說 這只是延伸高鐵特區的附加價值 預留未來發展彰化路網的空間
對彰化來說 30E我可以賺到一條橋又能賺到一條捷運 還可以搞都更開發
你會發現為什麼這次三方都力推就是因為對各方來說都有利可圖
至於場站設點問題
如果你把他當作未來延伸到市區的起點就沒問題
而且彰化市要發展也只能往那塊地發展
大家應該很清楚彰化市現在的發展瓶頸在哪吧
當然這個點沒跟未來台鐵高架化的金馬車站共構很可惜
但高架化還這麼久 這一段不到六公里只要招標跟施工沒出問題 三年就能蓋好
去思考高架化的問題實在還沒必要
只希望未來能蓋近一點 用封閉式天橋連結兩站就很便利了
至於公車路網問題
這其實要這樣看 到底是先有公車運量才有捷運 還是先有捷運才有公車運量?
我想每個地方發展情況都不同 沒有一定的答案
重點還是在蓋好之後的接駁轉乘問題
如果把各主要路線起始站往北拉從金馬站開始跑
再配合班距的安排 這應該不算是很難的事情
畢竟這個站雖然邊緣 但離火車站也才3.5公里且彰客停車場就在附近
也可服務到和美鹿港福興秀水芬園的人口
啊對了別說什麼台鐵可以增班這種廢話
大肚溪南號誌站-彰化站之間已經快要塞爆了
山海線擠一起尖峰時刻幾無增班空間
至於關於未來進到市區內要走哪條
只能說各有優缺
金馬路優點是經費較便宜 未來可發展性較高 缺點是遠離舊有市區
中山路優點是直接進入人口蛋黃區 缺點是經費較貴 未來可發展性較低
金馬路對交通影響是較小的 中山路則不然 屬於彰化的大動脈 黑暗期會很可怕
所以不是往人多地方蓋就會賺錢 各國捷運很少用運量賺錢
強如北捷那種放在世界來說前幾高運量的靠運輸本業也是虧錢
主要還是靠廣告+場站+開發去賺回來
最後 開發會帶來炒地皮的問題
但你不能因為怕炒地皮就不去開發
這樣這個城市永遠不會發展甚至會萎縮
雖然我也買不起捷運站周邊QQ
但搭捷運去七期我是負擔的起的
畢竟彰化現在要去七期那除非開車 不然實在太不方便
而開車又常常塞車 這就是困擾的地方
以上 提供大家多點資訊參考
--
不過還沒在彰化版發過
我想這裡的版友比較熟悉彰化
但很可惜對這次延伸案還是諸多不了解 流於政治言論其實不太好
首先這計畫其實早在中捷開始蓋的時候就規劃好了 而不是現在才在吵
延伸的138E 中央補助69E 台中負擔40E 彰化負擔29E
29E對一個交通建設來說不算貴 特別是台中彰化的連結
例如:去年通車的溪尾大橋就花了10E
那台中為何希望延伸? 主要是因為這次延伸的四站有兩站在高鐵特區
特區那兩個里五年內人口成長了31% 超過2500人
一個里一年平均成長250人是很可觀的 更何況那邊待開發的土地還很多
對台中市府來說非常有誘因配合捷運發展
這次的工程經費主要還是貴在特區那一段
http://i.imgur.com/9ZAogIm.jpg (104年的估算表)

上面可以看到真正用在延伸到彰化的部分(土地+非制式高架段+剩下各分一半好了)
20E+11E+16E=47E
也就是彰化只佔四分之一左右的經費而已
這裡我提一下非制式高架段 主要是跨大肚溪的金馬大橋
那座橋會蓋成捷運公路兩用橋 如果以溪尾大橋造價計算(蓋在那地方只會比溪尾更貴)
這次的47E還涵蓋了多蓋一條公路新橋可能的10E成本
對中央來說 這不算是很貴的投資 而且看來可開發空間很大
對台中來說 這只是延伸高鐵特區的附加價值 預留未來發展彰化路網的空間
對彰化來說 30E我可以賺到一條橋又能賺到一條捷運 還可以搞都更開發
你會發現為什麼這次三方都力推就是因為對各方來說都有利可圖
至於場站設點問題
如果你把他當作未來延伸到市區的起點就沒問題
而且彰化市要發展也只能往那塊地發展
大家應該很清楚彰化市現在的發展瓶頸在哪吧
當然這個點沒跟未來台鐵高架化的金馬車站共構很可惜
但高架化還這麼久 這一段不到六公里只要招標跟施工沒出問題 三年就能蓋好
去思考高架化的問題實在還沒必要
只希望未來能蓋近一點 用封閉式天橋連結兩站就很便利了
至於公車路網問題
這其實要這樣看 到底是先有公車運量才有捷運 還是先有捷運才有公車運量?
我想每個地方發展情況都不同 沒有一定的答案
重點還是在蓋好之後的接駁轉乘問題
如果把各主要路線起始站往北拉從金馬站開始跑
再配合班距的安排 這應該不算是很難的事情
畢竟這個站雖然邊緣 但離火車站也才3.5公里且彰客停車場就在附近
也可服務到和美鹿港福興秀水芬園的人口
啊對了別說什麼台鐵可以增班這種廢話
大肚溪南號誌站-彰化站之間已經快要塞爆了
山海線擠一起尖峰時刻幾無增班空間
至於關於未來進到市區內要走哪條
只能說各有優缺
金馬路優點是經費較便宜 未來可發展性較高 缺點是遠離舊有市區
中山路優點是直接進入人口蛋黃區 缺點是經費較貴 未來可發展性較低
金馬路對交通影響是較小的 中山路則不然 屬於彰化的大動脈 黑暗期會很可怕
所以不是往人多地方蓋就會賺錢 各國捷運很少用運量賺錢
強如北捷那種放在世界來說前幾高運量的靠運輸本業也是虧錢
主要還是靠廣告+場站+開發去賺回來
最後 開發會帶來炒地皮的問題
但你不能因為怕炒地皮就不去開發
這樣這個城市永遠不會發展甚至會萎縮
雖然我也買不起捷運站周邊QQ
但搭捷運去七期我是負擔的起的
畢竟彰化現在要去七期那除非開車 不然實在太不方便
而開車又常常塞車 這就是困擾的地方
以上 提供大家多點資訊參考
--
Tags:
彰化
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By Damian
at 2017-09-21T04:17
at 2017-09-21T04:17

By Genevieve
at 2017-09-24T18:58
at 2017-09-24T18:58

By Emily
at 2017-09-28T09:39
at 2017-09-28T09:39

By Skylar Davis
at 2017-10-02T00:20
at 2017-10-02T00:20

By Puput
at 2017-10-05T15:01
at 2017-10-05T15:01

By Selena
at 2017-10-09T05:43
at 2017-10-09T05:43

By Emily
at 2017-10-12T20:24
at 2017-10-12T20:24

By Edward Lewis
at 2017-10-16T11:05
at 2017-10-16T11:05

By Charlie
at 2017-10-20T01:46
at 2017-10-20T01:46

By Rebecca
at 2017-10-23T16:27
at 2017-10-23T16:27

By Jack
at 2017-10-27T07:08
at 2017-10-27T07:08

By Vanessa
at 2017-10-30T21:49
at 2017-10-30T21:49

By Hedwig
at 2017-11-03T12:30
at 2017-11-03T12:30

By Victoria
at 2017-11-07T03:11
at 2017-11-07T03:11

By Jessica
at 2017-11-10T17:53
at 2017-11-10T17:53

By Enid
at 2017-11-14T08:34
at 2017-11-14T08:34

By Lydia
at 2017-11-17T23:15
at 2017-11-17T23:15

By Isla
at 2017-11-21T13:56
at 2017-11-21T13:56

By Odelette
at 2017-11-25T04:37
at 2017-11-25T04:37

By Callum
at 2017-11-28T19:18
at 2017-11-28T19:18

By Damian
at 2017-12-02T09:59
at 2017-12-02T09:59

By Elvira
at 2017-12-06T00:40
at 2017-12-06T00:40

By Mary
at 2017-12-09T15:22
at 2017-12-09T15:22

By Cara
at 2017-12-13T06:03
at 2017-12-13T06:03

By Christine
at 2017-12-16T20:44
at 2017-12-16T20:44

By Annie
at 2017-12-20T11:25
at 2017-12-20T11:25

By Genevieve
at 2017-12-24T02:06
at 2017-12-24T02:06

By Daniel
at 2017-12-27T16:47
at 2017-12-27T16:47

By Tom
at 2017-12-31T07:28
at 2017-12-31T07:28

By Genevieve
at 2018-01-03T22:09
at 2018-01-03T22:09

By George
at 2018-01-07T12:50
at 2018-01-07T12:50

By Vanessa
at 2018-01-11T03:32
at 2018-01-11T03:32

By Olivia
at 2018-01-14T18:13
at 2018-01-14T18:13

By Olga
at 2018-01-18T08:54
at 2018-01-18T08:54

By Caitlin
at 2018-01-21T23:35
at 2018-01-21T23:35

By Blanche
at 2018-01-25T14:16
at 2018-01-25T14:16

By Yuri
at 2018-01-29T04:57
at 2018-01-29T04:57

By Kumar
at 2018-02-01T19:38
at 2018-02-01T19:38

By Emma
at 2018-02-05T10:19
at 2018-02-05T10:19

By Connor
at 2018-02-09T01:01
at 2018-02-09T01:01

By Catherine
at 2018-02-12T15:42
at 2018-02-12T15:42

By Jacob
at 2018-02-16T06:23
at 2018-02-16T06:23

By Charlotte
at 2018-02-19T21:04
at 2018-02-19T21:04

By Heather
at 2018-02-23T11:45
at 2018-02-23T11:45

By Tracy
at 2018-02-27T02:26
at 2018-02-27T02:26

By Jacky
at 2018-03-02T17:07
at 2018-03-02T17:07

By Hazel
at 2018-03-06T07:48
at 2018-03-06T07:48

By Lucy
at 2018-03-09T22:29
at 2018-03-09T22:29

By Elma
at 2018-03-13T13:11
at 2018-03-13T13:11

By Olga
at 2018-03-17T03:52
at 2018-03-17T03:52

By Selena
at 2018-03-20T18:33
at 2018-03-20T18:33

By John
at 2018-03-24T09:14
at 2018-03-24T09:14

By Hedwig
at 2018-03-27T23:55
at 2018-03-27T23:55

By Ula
at 2018-03-31T14:36
at 2018-03-31T14:36

By Edwina
at 2018-04-04T05:17
at 2018-04-04T05:17

By Gilbert
at 2018-04-07T19:58
at 2018-04-07T19:58

By Edwina
at 2018-04-11T10:39
at 2018-04-11T10:39

By Mia
at 2018-04-15T01:21
at 2018-04-15T01:21

By Elma
at 2018-04-18T16:02
at 2018-04-18T16:02

By Aaliyah
at 2018-04-22T06:43
at 2018-04-22T06:43

By Mary
at 2018-04-25T21:24
at 2018-04-25T21:24

By Ivy
at 2018-04-29T12:05
at 2018-04-29T12:05

By Barb Cronin
at 2018-05-03T02:46
at 2018-05-03T02:46

By Caroline
at 2018-05-06T17:27
at 2018-05-06T17:27

By Jacob
at 2018-05-10T08:08
at 2018-05-10T08:08

By Xanthe
at 2018-05-13T22:50
at 2018-05-13T22:50

By Enid
at 2018-05-17T13:31
at 2018-05-17T13:31

By Valerie
at 2018-05-21T04:12
at 2018-05-21T04:12

By Kama
at 2018-05-24T18:53
at 2018-05-24T18:53

By Selena
at 2018-05-28T09:34
at 2018-05-28T09:34

By Linda
at 2018-06-01T00:15
at 2018-06-01T00:15

By Olive
at 2018-06-04T14:56
at 2018-06-04T14:56

By Charlie
at 2018-06-08T05:37
at 2018-06-08T05:37

By William
at 2018-06-11T20:18
at 2018-06-11T20:18

By Sandy
at 2018-06-15T11:00
at 2018-06-15T11:00

By Michael
at 2018-06-19T01:41
at 2018-06-19T01:41

By Jacky
at 2018-06-22T16:22
at 2018-06-22T16:22

By Caitlin
at 2018-06-26T07:03
at 2018-06-26T07:03

By Blanche
at 2018-06-29T21:44
at 2018-06-29T21:44

By Daph Bay
at 2018-07-03T12:25
at 2018-07-03T12:25

By Anthony
at 2018-07-07T03:06
at 2018-07-07T03:06

By Necoo
at 2018-07-10T17:47
at 2018-07-10T17:47

By Jacky
at 2018-07-14T08:29
at 2018-07-14T08:29

By Agnes
at 2018-07-17T23:10
at 2018-07-17T23:10

By Elizabeth
at 2018-07-21T13:51
at 2018-07-21T13:51

By Queena
at 2018-07-25T04:32
at 2018-07-25T04:32

By Necoo
at 2018-07-28T19:13
at 2018-07-28T19:13

By Tristan Cohan
at 2018-08-01T09:54
at 2018-08-01T09:54
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By Lydia
at 2018-08-05T00:35
at 2018-08-05T00:35
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By Anthony
at 2018-08-08T15:16
at 2018-08-08T15:16
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By Donna
at 2018-08-12T05:57
at 2018-08-12T05:57
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By Quintina
at 2018-08-15T20:39
at 2018-08-15T20:39
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By Wallis
at 2018-08-19T11:20
at 2018-08-19T11:20
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By Genevieve
at 2018-08-23T02:01
at 2018-08-23T02:01
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By Emily
at 2018-08-26T16:42
at 2018-08-26T16:42
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By Rosalind
at 2018-08-30T07:23
at 2018-08-30T07:23
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By Charlie
at 2018-09-02T22:04
at 2018-09-02T22:04
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By Liam
at 2018-09-06T12:45
at 2018-09-06T12:45
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By Christine
at 2018-09-10T03:26
at 2018-09-10T03:26
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By Mason
at 2018-09-13T18:08
at 2018-09-13T18:08
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By Dinah
at 2018-09-17T08:49
at 2018-09-17T08:49
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By Doris
at 2018-09-20T23:30
at 2018-09-20T23:30
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By Sarah
at 2018-09-24T14:11
at 2018-09-24T14:11
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By Steve
at 2018-09-28T04:52
at 2018-09-28T04:52
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By Quanna
at 2018-10-01T19:33
at 2018-10-01T19:33
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By Harry
at 2018-10-05T10:14
at 2018-10-05T10:14
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By Brianna
at 2018-10-09T00:55
at 2018-10-09T00:55
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By Lucy
at 2018-10-12T15:36
at 2018-10-12T15:36
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By Faithe
at 2018-10-16T06:18
at 2018-10-16T06:18
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By Yuri
at 2018-10-19T20:59
at 2018-10-19T20:59
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By Lydia
at 2018-10-23T11:40
at 2018-10-23T11:40
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By William
at 2018-10-27T02:21
at 2018-10-27T02:21
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By Gary
at 2018-10-30T17:02
at 2018-10-30T17:02
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By Susan
at 2018-11-03T07:43
at 2018-11-03T07:43
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By Zora
at 2018-11-06T22:24
at 2018-11-06T22:24

By William
at 2018-11-10T13:05
at 2018-11-10T13:05
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By Ida
at 2018-11-14T03:46
at 2018-11-14T03:46
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By Lauren
at 2018-11-17T18:28
at 2018-11-17T18:28
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By Rachel
at 2018-11-21T09:09
at 2018-11-21T09:09
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By Michael
at 2018-11-24T23:50
at 2018-11-24T23:50
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By Leila
at 2018-11-28T14:31
at 2018-11-28T14:31
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By Audriana
at 2018-12-02T05:12
at 2018-12-02T05:12
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By Dorothy
at 2018-12-05T19:53
at 2018-12-05T19:53
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By Annie
at 2018-12-09T10:34
at 2018-12-09T10:34
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