今恐又要停電!用電狂飆 台電:改從E組 - 學校

By Daniel
at 2021-05-18T22:44
at 2021-05-18T22:44
Table of Contents
綠能、核能各有擁護者
誰好誰壞我想就先不討論了,讓大家自己去斟酌
下面就幾個實際情況分享
※ 引述《neepa (官小講話算三小)》之銘言:
: 基本上我支持綠能!
: 但現階段綠能就是無法當穩定電源來用。
: 打個比喻,打零工有一天沒一天的薪水能拿來當穩定收入嗎?每個月都有固定支出,但收入不穩定,肯定就會出問題啊!
: 什麼叫綠能不穩定?晚上沒太陽能、缺水沒水力、沒風或颱風來就沒風力,這就叫不穩定。就像現在一樣,沒水沒風沒太陽,你跟我說去哪裡生電!
: 現在核能占1成以上,所有綠能加起來也只有1成,你跟我說綠能要怎樣能穩定把核能這1成吃下來?
綠能現在佔10%,2025要達20%約27gw是執政黨的目標值
其中約7成需要靠太陽能
屋頂型大概都飽和了
政府機關、學校、公有設施能蓋的都蓋
有意願蓋在自家頂樓的民眾也差不多,剩下的大概都無意願的
但是離目標值還有長遠距離
所以目前主要都在推地面型,就是農地、魚塭那些
這也大概是極限了,為求穩定性,剩餘80%還是得靠其他來源
: 我支持綠能,但在綠能還不穩定之前就是必須仰賴核能來穩定電力。之後綠能成熟,要淘汰核能再逐步淘汰,而不是一個口號喊出來就淘汰。
: 綠能就真的環保嗎?核能有廢棄物,太陽能就沒有?一堆太陽能面板廢棄後怎辦?
太陽能板其實算好回收了
回收體系就走面板方式
好比說我們常看的電視、電子看板
你家任何一個插電會亮的螢幕,壞掉了怎麼處理
太陽能板就怎麼處理,更何況他的構造更粗糙
把裡頭的貴金屬分離出來,剩下就是建材類的東西
如果要講無法回收,生活中有更多無法循環或再利用的
好比說每個人都在用的衛生紙,生產過程產生的紙漿汙泥
這種東西很難再利用,無法分解,無法去化
唯一方式就是掩埋
但掩埋場越來越少,所以無法去化的東西,做出來就是多一個
相反的能夠百分之百分解再利用的,多幾個也不用擔心
還有像是農業廢棄物的廢蚵殼
去化體系也不完全(有少部分的業者在做,但消化速度比生產速度慢)
你撥一個就是多一個,嘉義東石、雲林沿海走一遭可以發現很多地方都在堆積廢蚵殼
但這問題卻鮮少人提出來,大家好像視而不見
反正不是堆在我家,沿海鄉下髒亂好像沒差一樣
相比之下,太陽能板的回收甚至是有利可圖
有能力拆解的合法再利用機構也不少
以廢棄物的角度來說,一大堆比太陽能板更需令人擔憂的東西
: 如果覺得核四差、拼裝品,那可以蓋核五核六,而不是核四差就等於核能差。
: 因為石化燃料可能有用盡的一天,加上會排放大量二氧化碳,所以各國開始推動綠能。而台灣勒?為了推動綠能,結果增加燃煤燃氣,這不是非常弔詭?
呼應上半段,80%的穩定來源,目前政府還是想以火力為大宗
但不是你說的燃媒,事實上燃煤比例會減少,相對的天然氣增加取代
是因為發電過程,天然氣的鍋爐效率較好
所以同樣的發電量來說碳排放會低於燃煤
加上天然氣供應的國家多,一家出了問題還可以換另一家
風險比較小
當然天然氣不比綠電,比起核能也有碳排放
大概是目前要穩定供電又不要核能的唯一解了
至於衍生的三接天然氣澡礁問題,那另闢戰場,先跳過
: 以實際來看,目前國家政策並非主要推動綠能,而是主要廢核能;只要核能廢,用甚麼能都可以。
: 政府是不用對我們民眾交代什麼,等科技廠開始缺電用的時候,政府就可能會主動出來交代了。你讓台積電停1小時試試看,我保證隔天外資一定出面靠北。
: -----
: Sent from JPTT on my Xiaomi Redmi Note 8T.
綠能推動的問題,與其說是破壞環境或發電不穩
現在更大的阻力其實就在民間
一旦業者完成電力並聯、與台電簽定躉售合約後
那一簽就是20年的被動收入,以鄉民角度來講就是鹽酥雞不看價錢的財富自由
每個人都想分一杯羹
所以任何有關係的,哪怕只有一點,也要發聲喊話,有吵有糖
小明家鄰居地主,賣給商人蓋了星巴克,然後賺大錢
也沒看小明去跟他說欸你蓋在這很吵影響到我要付我多少錢
聽到隔壁是政府案件施工,哇靠趕快找議員民代
如果說蓋風機那風切聲影響到居住品質還有話講
魚塭蓋太陽能板,阿人家魚塭主人要蓋,地是他的他想賺錢怎麼了
不管啦人家風機都有補助漁船,你蓋太陽能板也要給我補助阿
然後政府又弄了一堆環境檢核生態檢合公聽會說明會
只是在延宕而已;
核電執照再兩年到期
離2025還有四年,以目前進度來看,要不缺電大概只能再展延執照了
--
誰好誰壞我想就先不討論了,讓大家自己去斟酌
下面就幾個實際情況分享
※ 引述《neepa (官小講話算三小)》之銘言:
: 基本上我支持綠能!
: 但現階段綠能就是無法當穩定電源來用。
: 打個比喻,打零工有一天沒一天的薪水能拿來當穩定收入嗎?每個月都有固定支出,但收入不穩定,肯定就會出問題啊!
: 什麼叫綠能不穩定?晚上沒太陽能、缺水沒水力、沒風或颱風來就沒風力,這就叫不穩定。就像現在一樣,沒水沒風沒太陽,你跟我說去哪裡生電!
: 現在核能占1成以上,所有綠能加起來也只有1成,你跟我說綠能要怎樣能穩定把核能這1成吃下來?
綠能現在佔10%,2025要達20%約27gw是執政黨的目標值
其中約7成需要靠太陽能
屋頂型大概都飽和了
政府機關、學校、公有設施能蓋的都蓋
有意願蓋在自家頂樓的民眾也差不多,剩下的大概都無意願的
但是離目標值還有長遠距離
所以目前主要都在推地面型,就是農地、魚塭那些
這也大概是極限了,為求穩定性,剩餘80%還是得靠其他來源
: 我支持綠能,但在綠能還不穩定之前就是必須仰賴核能來穩定電力。之後綠能成熟,要淘汰核能再逐步淘汰,而不是一個口號喊出來就淘汰。
: 綠能就真的環保嗎?核能有廢棄物,太陽能就沒有?一堆太陽能面板廢棄後怎辦?
太陽能板其實算好回收了
回收體系就走面板方式
好比說我們常看的電視、電子看板
你家任何一個插電會亮的螢幕,壞掉了怎麼處理
太陽能板就怎麼處理,更何況他的構造更粗糙
把裡頭的貴金屬分離出來,剩下就是建材類的東西
如果要講無法回收,生活中有更多無法循環或再利用的
好比說每個人都在用的衛生紙,生產過程產生的紙漿汙泥
這種東西很難再利用,無法分解,無法去化
唯一方式就是掩埋
但掩埋場越來越少,所以無法去化的東西,做出來就是多一個
相反的能夠百分之百分解再利用的,多幾個也不用擔心
還有像是農業廢棄物的廢蚵殼
去化體系也不完全(有少部分的業者在做,但消化速度比生產速度慢)
你撥一個就是多一個,嘉義東石、雲林沿海走一遭可以發現很多地方都在堆積廢蚵殼
但這問題卻鮮少人提出來,大家好像視而不見
反正不是堆在我家,沿海鄉下髒亂好像沒差一樣
相比之下,太陽能板的回收甚至是有利可圖
有能力拆解的合法再利用機構也不少
以廢棄物的角度來說,一大堆比太陽能板更需令人擔憂的東西
: 如果覺得核四差、拼裝品,那可以蓋核五核六,而不是核四差就等於核能差。
: 因為石化燃料可能有用盡的一天,加上會排放大量二氧化碳,所以各國開始推動綠能。而台灣勒?為了推動綠能,結果增加燃煤燃氣,這不是非常弔詭?
呼應上半段,80%的穩定來源,目前政府還是想以火力為大宗
但不是你說的燃媒,事實上燃煤比例會減少,相對的天然氣增加取代
是因為發電過程,天然氣的鍋爐效率較好
所以同樣的發電量來說碳排放會低於燃煤
加上天然氣供應的國家多,一家出了問題還可以換另一家
風險比較小
當然天然氣不比綠電,比起核能也有碳排放
大概是目前要穩定供電又不要核能的唯一解了
至於衍生的三接天然氣澡礁問題,那另闢戰場,先跳過
: 以實際來看,目前國家政策並非主要推動綠能,而是主要廢核能;只要核能廢,用甚麼能都可以。
: 政府是不用對我們民眾交代什麼,等科技廠開始缺電用的時候,政府就可能會主動出來交代了。你讓台積電停1小時試試看,我保證隔天外資一定出面靠北。
: -----
: Sent from JPTT on my Xiaomi Redmi Note 8T.
綠能推動的問題,與其說是破壞環境或發電不穩
現在更大的阻力其實就在民間
一旦業者完成電力並聯、與台電簽定躉售合約後
那一簽就是20年的被動收入,以鄉民角度來講就是鹽酥雞不看價錢的財富自由
每個人都想分一杯羹
所以任何有關係的,哪怕只有一點,也要發聲喊話,有吵有糖
小明家鄰居地主,賣給商人蓋了星巴克,然後賺大錢
也沒看小明去跟他說欸你蓋在這很吵影響到我要付我多少錢
聽到隔壁是政府案件施工,哇靠趕快找議員民代
如果說蓋風機那風切聲影響到居住品質還有話講
魚塭蓋太陽能板,阿人家魚塭主人要蓋,地是他的他想賺錢怎麼了
不管啦人家風機都有補助漁船,你蓋太陽能板也要給我補助阿
然後政府又弄了一堆環境檢核生態檢合公聽會說明會
只是在延宕而已;
核電執照再兩年到期
離2025還有四年,以目前進度來看,要不缺電大概只能再展延執照了
--
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